Programming: Choice of pieces

[Waterman]

I am concerned that the programming of nearly all the wellknown orchestras remains too much in the 'romantic' world, with hardly any place for more recent or contemporary pieces by living composers. I am not original in saying that Mozart, Beethoven and the like performed their music live in their time. Mostly pleasing, often surprising and sometimes shocking their audiences and critics. What to say about Strawinsky or Bartok.  Does it need 50 or more years to get 'modern' pieces accepted by the larger public?

And, of course we have seen an increasing number of cycles to commemorate the birthdays or decease of the 'great composers' with the consequent competition between orchestras to get the best conductors, best soloists etc to perform an overdose of a limited part of the overal classical music repertoire. Probably commercially attractive: full concert halls and heavy sales of CD's

I believe that more 'non-traditional' programming by the major and smaller orchestras would make a significant contribution to the development of interest in and appreciation for more recent and contemporary music. it would also start to attract some younger people to concerts.

[Roberto]

...Attitude.  For what it seems to be a mysterious reason, professional musicians, we tend to have an uaproachable attitude when we perform.  We loose certain human quality and become "musicians".  Stiff, distant, perhaps a bit arrogant.  This attitude is so deep into what we know as tradition... "maestro!!!"  people calls us.  Unfortunately, the majority of potential audiences are no longer inspired by "stiff, almighty angry maestros" (both conductors and performers).   They are looking for normal human beigns, capable to comunicate through music, and willing to share their lifes through music.

Music reflects our human life and people looks for identification in art.  Why then, we sometimes seem to be standing in the way between music and people instead of beign the true ultimate bridge for it?

When we think of music, how much do we actually think of the concept of share?
We want to find the music, the momentum, the right sound, color, tempo, mood, etc... But how much do we actually experience the passion to share it?  And if we don't share it, what is the whole point of doing it at all? We became egocentric.

The great old orchestras preserve tradition, culture and a whole concept of humanity expressed through a deep, meaningful spiritual and complex language which is music.  Wonderful!!   But unfortunately, most of this great orchestras seem to play to be worshiped and at the moment, audiences don't seem to be in the mood for it. 
Orchestral institutions are breaking their heads to save their budgets and get audiences to the concert halls. They experiment with all kinds of  marketing possibilites...and they don't seem to succeed.  After getting some people into the concert hall, what this people experiences is ultimately the same!!!  Why changing the wrap if the content is the same?  People sees a highly trained orchestra, with a highly capable maestro, "beign great"... for themeselves.  I get the feeling that unconsciously, many potential concert goers feel "wow, all this greatness... so high and mighty... I am too ordinary, this is not for me".  The terrible true is that it is for them and for everyone but we make it look like it isn't.  So, orchestral managers, why don't you start by encouraging the orchestras to open up to the people that is ultimately there to share and enjoy the music...?  If we look at the most successful muscians of our days, most of them (Jansen, Rattle, Dudamel, Lang Lang, Maisky, etc) are in the "sharing mode", trying to find the music, and trying to become a true bridge between the music and the audience, while most orchestras are exhaustively busy beign "great maestros"... there in a corner, frozen in time, getting dusty and dangerousy close to become an anacronic parody of the old times.   

[Invisible Sticks]

Allow me to not participate in the discussion, and react on the opening post of this topic.

Does it need 50 or more years to get 'modern' pieces accepted by the larger public?

Yes, it does. Because on average, the larger public is not that progressive, nor able to adjust their personality (meaning: taste) in a relatively short period of time. Think about it: never in history have people (and animals, and plants, and so forth) been able able to adapt immediately to something new, whatever that 'something' may be - that takes time. Period.

And, of course we have seen an increasing number of cycles to commemorate the birthdays or decease of the 'great composers' with the consequent competition between orchestras to get the best conductors, best soloists etc to perform an overdose of a limited part of the overal classical music repertoire. Probably commercially attractive: full concert halls and heavy sales of CD's

So?

I believe that more 'non-traditional' programming by the major and smaller orchestras would make a significant contribution to the development of interest in and appreciation for more recent and contemporary music. it would also start to attract some younger people to concerts.

My dear friend, whoever you are: apparently you aren't able to accept the simple fact that certain art forms are more 'underground' than others. The 'larger public' will never feel the desire to dig deep and find out what else there is to discover than Mozart and Beethoven, Britney Spears and 50 Cent, Miles Davis and Ella Fitzgerald, or Metallica and Linkin Park, because they choose to focus on other things, and the artists named above are enough for them to be entertained by - those people don't need anything else when it comes to music. Of course, there are plenty of contemporary composers who write great music. But remember that they aren't underground without a reason: most of them don't write the kind of pieces that appeal to the straight-forward a.k.a. middle-of-the-road-mentality of the 'larger public' as described above. Let alone the fact that being a composer in modern times is underground anyway, no matter if you write like Mozart, John Williams or Max Martin. Let's just rejoice in the fact that at least you and me (most of all you, I believe) know how to appreciate the creations of all those hard-working contemporaries, because the wish to 'eliminate' the underground and raise all that comes crawling out to the status of (again) the artists named above is impossible to realise.

[Bach]

Let me try to summarize what has been brought forward in this category since the opening of this forum, aiming to do justice with thanks to Roberto, Pom, Waterman, Jane, InvisibleSticks and Beljon. And then add some further thoughts for you to react to.

Criticisms mentioned:
- Programming of concerts stays too much in the romantic repertoire
- There is an overdose/competition of performing the same music in commemorating birthdays of great composers
- Composers often are “shocking” in their own time, but should it take 50 years to get new compositions accepted (or are compositions too far from the audience)?
- Professional musicians have an attitude of unapproachable, stiff, distant, traditional
- Public gets intimidated “I am too ordinary, this is not for me”
- We have become egocentric in performing music
- Look at it from a business point of view: what company would survive the way classical institutions do? It survives on the goodwill of governmental institutions, some companies and individuals
- Audiences: Only a small top (i.e. well-known performers) are known by a larger population.
- You can’t force an audience just not interested.
- Classical music has never been profitable, and yet it has survived more than 7 centuries!
- But the numbers of audience have been dropping, already limited, it is alarmingly becoming smaller.
- more adventurous programming risks losing audience.
- Accept that some art forms are more “underground” than other. The larger public will never feel the desire to dig deep and out what else there is to discover. They look for entertainment.
- In today’s cultural climate, classical music is no way as prominent as pop music and is not suitable to reach large audiences.
- Not everyone can be as fuelled-up by music as we are, they may just like to listen and be entertained.

Ideas/suggestions mentioned:
- More non-traditional programming, develop the interest in more contemporary works
- It is ok if new music takes quite some time to be accepted (like 50 years)
- Audience is looking for more approachable human beings, who are communicating through music
- People seek identification in art, a bridge, a concept of sharing (examples: Maris Jansen, Rattle, Dudamel, etc )
- We can not rely on generosity, nor wait for the miracle to happen. What future do we want to create? What are you planning to change it?
- We need to develop new audiences, gain a (<better>) place in the media. NB Menuhin, Bernstein, Karajan somehow did it before!
- Influence attitude and quality provided, thus engaging people to come, listen and buy.
- There are plenty of contemporary composers who write great music, but remain “underground” as the pieces don’t appeal to middle-of-the-road mentality. Nor should they. It is impossible to change that.
- It is in the hands of composers to write music that is interesting enough and integer, and can appeal to larger audiences. Often it seems to come from Mars.
- Utrecht Conservatory employs a drama teacher for stage presentation incl. being vulnerable and communicating with audience (also ref successful experiments). Can be immensely enriching for musicians for stage presentation, conceptualization and manipulation of timing.
- change the standard concert ordering of short piece, concertante, break, long piece, to e.g. two long pieces before break and shorter thereafter.
- Classical music will be there for a long time, albeit for a dedicated but relatively small group of people.

[celinacave]

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